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| English: Suicide Point, Kodaikanal (Photo credit: Wikipedia) |
A most often mentioned reason for why suicide can be selfish seems to be the fact that people who killed themselves made their loved ones to grief. In other words, they caused others' pain. But, I would argue, that can we really compare our grief (of losing loved ones) to the suffering of those persons who killed themselves? I think no, because to shed some tears is not at all the same kind of suffering as those people who killed themselves suffered, unless grief is severe enough to lead suicide. So, believing that just for the purpose of avoiding live ones' grief, those dead ones should continue their suffering, instead of ending it by committing suicide, this logic, by my understand, is what real "selfishness" is.
Suffering is one of greatest subjects (maybe simply the greatest) of human affair. We who never thought of killing ourselves can never know how it feels like to those suicidal people. And the reasons we never think of killing ourselves not really is because we are selfless, but because we are stronger, weaker, or, our challenges are less serious. No matter what, personally, I think we are just luckier than those who took their own lives.
I believe life, especially a conscious life (namely "human") by default is not a subject to pure happiness, but to both happiness and misery, depend on conditions. And generally speaking, the latter (suffering) is greater than former. For this reason, I believe we are all free to handle our own lives, suicide, endure, enjoy, or whatever else.
"Selfish" denotes an act performed with only the interests of the "self" in mind, therefore any act that is only committed for the self's sake is selfish by definition, irrespective of whether there are people left behind or not. Since there are almost no circumstances in which suicide is committed for the sake of someone else, it's almost always "selfish".
ReplyDeleteThe question should be "Is selfishness always bad?"
Dale Cooper, you made very good point! I think your question is more semantics related, which is an even more interesting, deeper concern. Thanks!
DeleteBeautiful post, yunyi. Your last two paragraphs are simply wonderful. Such compassion and understanding of this, as you so rightly say, greatest of subjects: suffering.
ReplyDeleteThanks Marty!
DeleteIt depends on what the person is going through.
ReplyDeleteI have felt suicidal many times when going through depression and it is something I would never wish on anyone.
Many people have stopped their plans for suicide because of the grief they know their loved ones (especially their children) would go through.
But others have killed themselves because of the never-ending pain they are in (physical or mental - and yes, mental pain/depression IS pain that can be unbearable after a time).
Most people who say suicide is selfish have never had to undergo such pain so it is only because of ignorance that many people say so.
oh tom, i am so sorry to hear that you were suicidal. i hope your depression never come back...
Deletei agree what you said. same as my point.
I don't think it's a selfish act but it makes you feel like you failed that person in some way. I mean when my friend took her life some year's ago, it made me think: Why couldn't she come to me with whatever her problem was? In a sense, it could be selfish of me to think I could have avoided her of taking her life. Idk...what I do know is that I think everyone on this planet at some point has thought about taking their own life, some more then others. In those thoughts, what spurred one to want to do it? If you can answer that question or think back to your lowest point in time, one might able to have a little insight on what one was thinking. I know it's a dark place to go, but I think that's the only way you might be able to come close to even thinking what was going on in their head.
ReplyDeletesorry that you lost your best friends, L.A. Green. It could be true that had your friends ever come to you and revealed her problems she might had been saved. Some time the sense of shame is so strong that people prefer taking it to graves.
DeleteNo, it's not a selfish act; if anything, suicide is the ultimate in self neglect.
ReplyDeleteI think it is. However they just cannot help themselves, I guess.
DeleteI don't think that these people want to die - I think that life is just too painful to live, for whatever reason. Pain is a powerful motivator. It tends to make us look inward - which I suppose can be defined as selfish, to some degree. When the pain outweighs the will to live, suicide may seem to be the only alternative. Sad, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteagree, meloday, that the pain is too powerful to bear. your interpretation triggers the same question dal cooper did: is selfish really bad?
DeleteYun, a very thoughtful post, and I have some differing views to present. Depending on the definition of “selfish,” suicide could be considered a selfish act (and I will be commenting on your more recent post about this too). You ask can we compare our grief to the suffering of those who killed themselves because they were suffering. No, not at all, but a person contemplating suicide might be prevented from doing so by considering that it would be a selfish act causing pain to loved ones left behind to grieve (I make an exception here for the terminally ill). So if considering it selfish can prevent a suicide, then I’d consider it positive, because I don’t believe that anyone in their heart really wants to kill themselves; they want an end to whatever is causing them unbearable emotional or physical pain.
ReplyDeleteIntellectually, you make a good point about how we are all individuals and free to handle our own lives, free to commit suicide or not. But as the poet John Donne wrote, “No man is an island, entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.” We are interconnected; we are all parts of the whole. When someone commits suicide, a piece of that whole is shattered so abruptly, so suddenly, that it causes a shock wave. The shock and grief felt by those who loved the person is very real. By any means possible, those around the person contemplating ending his/her life (again, not referring to the terminally ill) need to guide the individual, if possible, away from the thought of ending life by presenting a reason to hope. So although we are free-will individuals and no one can truly know what another is suffering (and yes, suffering is part of the human experience), if we only view it intellectually, we can miss the human element of the toll suicide takes on the whole.
I know of two people who lost a parent through suicide. They were children when it happened, they took the guilt on themselves and it affected their lives into adulthood. Last year, a friend’s husband who suffered from clinical depression committed suicide. They had been married 20 years. She’s been so devastated, it’s taken her a year just to leave the house again. I have seen the toll suicide can take on those left behind to grieve. When I think about it that way, then yes, I can see how suicide could be a selfish act.
Thanks Madilyn for your thought-provoking comment. You made very good argument that if the person who commits suicide can think of others' grief, he/she might be change her/his mind, so it would be a positive concept (selfish act). However, I have to wonder, when a person is so engrossed with his/her own problems, there is little chance that he/she could think of others. I personally had that kind of moment, that I was so immersed with my challenge (not suicide!) that I literally could not think of anyone else.
DeleteBut, having said all this, I still agree with you that deep inside, no one truly wanted kill themselves. So I did not mean to encourage somebody to die but only meant to say that when people killed themselves, we should not condemn their action.
Thanks again for sharing your wonderful thoughts!